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 Post subject: Blast Man Blast - Blast Man Associated Discussion
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:40 pm 
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Stage Map is attached in a zip file.

Screen Length = 51 screens (26 screens above 8-bit average, 23 screens above classic series average)

Stage Gimmick: None

Enemies (In order of appearance):

Speaker Tower: An enemy made of a single speaker and a few sections, number is different depending on the tower, whenever the tower blinks, it fires bouncing soundwaves, sections can be destroyed but they will regrow if left alone. Basically a reskin of Bari III without the ability to stand on it. Sound Waves deal two damage, deals four points of crash damage.

Sniper Joe: Visually styled after the with some alterations, shots are sudden and near unpredictable, seems to fire when sudden movements are made and rarely lowers its shield when shots are on screen, like in Mega Man 1, will proceed to jump after you if you attempt to go behind it. Unlike most Sniper Joes, the shield cannot be shot through or shot off by Bass. Shots deal three damage, deals four points of crash damage.

Meton: Visually similar to Metall Sniper, unsure whether the behaviour matches. Meton does not fire unless shot at or if you attempt to run past it. If you ran past it, it will only shoot if you stand on the same floor level as it. Shots deal three damage, deals four points of crash damage.

Beetle Bomber: Similar to the Bomb Patton, Beetle Bomber flies along the screen until it is above you, at which point it drops a bomb that creates a shockwave that spreads out about five or six waves. Bombs deal two damage, Waves deal four damage, deals two points of crash damage.

Speaker Boomer: Large speaker tower that fires two sound waves directly forwards when it blinks. Waves deal two damage, deals five points of crash damage.

Shield Attacker XLR: Standard Shield Attacker enemy, shield cannot be shot off by Bass. Deals three points of crash damage.

Whee: Large wheel enemy that moves aimlessly, deals six points of crash damage.

Mid-Boss: None

Boss: Blast Man:
Movement: Jumps when obstructed, but otherwise walks slowly, Flash Man styled movement, deals 5 crash damage.
Attacks: Sound Blaster: Fires a packet of sound forwards that explodes violently after a few seconds deals 4 damage, sound packet does not hurt you.
Eardrum Crusher: Slams fists together and covers screen in explosions, shoot him with enough damage to stop him, deals 4 damage.

Weapon: Sound Blaster: Functionally the same as Blast Man's attack, has 6 uses.

Mega Weapon: Nova Pulse: Fires an energy blast with a small energy bolt that orbits around it, has 9 uses.

Bass Weapon: Shooting Star: Drops a torrent of stars onto the screen that bounce harmlessly off of it one they hit something, has 18 uses.

Weapon Location: Sandwiched between two destructible walls early in the stage.

Letter Location: Down the leftmost of two jumps about halfway through the stage.

So that's all I have gathered about the stage, everything mentioned in this post is up for discussion, same goes for the other discussion topics that pop up.


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 Post subject: Re: Blast Man Blast - Blast Man Associated Discussion
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:05 pm 
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Wow, nothing? Well, I suppose that I should provide my opinions on Blast Man's stage, having just recently run through it.

Blast Man's stage is DULL. There is really no dressing that up, his stage is so very definitely DULL. The enemies in it are all older enemies in some way or they're the Speaker Boomer, who is rather generic. In fact, most of these enemies are similar to Mega Man 10 enemies, which almost makes it amusing. At any rate, this stage is one long slug-fest of boring and, in some cases, annoying. Without a doubt, this stage needs a LOT more put into it, things like more unique enemies, and a freaking gimmick. Seriously, nothing about this stage is really what I would call memorable, well, except for that one horizontal screen just before you go inside, that part was kind of tricky in a memorable sort of way.

Blast Man himself is not much better, being pretty much just as boring a fight as his stage is. Actually, that's a lie, his fight is actually rather hectic. Thanks to his movement patterns, the guy tends to stay right on top of you at all times, which is problematic when his attacks and his five points of crash damage are put into consideration. I've had plenty of moments in his fight where I've jumped to dodge either a Sound Blaster or him only to get tagged by the other one, and this is because the guy is basically right on top of you at all times. His screen-clearing attack is a vicious little thing in the right circumstances, and I have seen him try to use the thing three times in a row without stopping, and when you consider the multiple elevations in the fight and the fact that he doesn't exactly give you very much time to stop him, well, I hope you're playing as Mega Man instead of Bass, as Bass doesn't really have the firepower necessary to stop him half the time. Essentially, Blast Man is randomized, he'll fire off the Sound Blaster at basically any moment, and the same goes for the Eardrum Crusher, this means he can corner you alarmingly easily, at least from what I've found.

And that's all I have to say opinion-wise, feel free to agree with me, disagree with me, make suggestions, etc. I do plan to come back to this later with some suggestions to make, but for now this will be enough.


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 Post subject: Re: Blast Man Blast - Blast Man Associated Discussion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:35 am 
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If it's alright with you, can I give you my idea of an ideal enemy for Blast Man's stage?

Why not have a humanoid robot that carries a boombox on its shoulders and attacks by firing soundwaves that expand like the Ripple Laser from the Gradius series (though not as big as the laser itself)?

UPDATE: Here's the boombox robot enemy I mentioned earlier. The sheet may not look as perfect as one may think, but at least I had some fun making this ideal stage enemy for Blast Man's stage.
Image


Last edited by Raging-Banebou on Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Blast Man Blast - Blast Man Associated Discussion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:13 am 
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Huh, taking a quick look at a video of the ripple laser in action, I can see that being pretty cool, maybe if the ripples get large enough, it's possible for you to jump through them?

Also, it is perfectly fine with us for you to post here, in fact it is appreciated. The entire purpose of making these discussions public was so people besides the team could post with their ideas. It isn't wise for just the dev team to discuss fixes for the game, because there's a lot of people out there that have good ideas that can help fix the problems thoroughly.


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 Post subject: Re: Blast Man Blast - Blast Man Associated Discussion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:26 pm 
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This may take a bit before it makes sense, but I'd suggest adding a sort of variable strength spring.
I'm aware springs make little sense thematically, but I'm refering to its functionality rather than its visual.
Visually, it look like a big floor/wall/cieling mounted speaker with a changing volume setting, with the volume showing the bounce strength, from no volume being acts like a normal floor/wall/cieling, to full volume blasts you into orbit (Well, just a screen length maybe).

This could mix up the monotony of the stage a bit, could provide for a few interesting jumping puzzles, and wall mounted ones could potentially be used to make an express lane through the stage (as bouncing off them may be faster than sliding). I wouldn't pair them up with any instant death hazard other than pits for the stage though. And it shouldn't be much harder to program than rush coil.

I'd also make at least one enemy type affected by them, as not only could it provide hints to the player at to how they work, but the potential for hilarity/ clever enemy dispatching is pretty high. (Depending on the specific enemy).


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 Post subject: Re: Blast Man Blast - Blast Man Associated Discussion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:24 pm 
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Time to throw myself into these discussions. It's almost blasphemous how long I waited on that IMO. Anyways, to react first:

Mick Galbani: Whatever he said. From his boss observations I may fetch another topic, but I'll finish reactions first.
Raging-Banebou: I approve of this idea. Sounds original enough and probably should do a good job functionally.
Drax: What is it with people and ideas? Seriously, this idea would solve the gimmick problem nicely (do note though that most MMR stages have multiple gimmicks). I can already imagine the wacky spring speakers (for the lack of a better word) with some sort of glowy equalizer thing next to them. One thing though, and you will probably figure: This gimmick needs to have very limited randomness, if any at all. Otherwise it goes from a slug-fest of boring to a slug-fest of annoying.

Now for my own idea, which may not be the best of them, and may not score originality points. Anyways, considering Blast Man has a pretty violent purpose, how about a section with a giant sound cannon at the end (may double as midboss if it needs to)? That thing would fire HIGHLY damaging series of soundwaves at certain intervals, and you simply have to get out of the way, which may or may not be made more difficult by enemies or even those springs in/on the way.
This may be executed more often in games, but it's another thing that can do the job.

Finally, the concern MG caused me to raise. This is aimed at the programmers and other designers: Is Blast Man sort of fixed? Because if he is very random, the fight with him is going to cause problems. Also, we might want to make this slightly more possible for Bass if MG's story is anything to go by.

That'll be all for today.


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 Post subject: Re: Blast Man Blast - Blast Man Associated Discussion
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:16 pm 
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Huh, evidently I should've stated opinions on Blast Man's stage sooner, seeing as how it's gotten a fair number of comments.

Well, this is NOT a post on opinions of how to fix it, rather, this is going to be a relatively thorough analysis of the stage as a whole, going over, well, basically everything in it. This analysis (and all future ones) will be separated into "rooms", which will be separated by old-fashioned screen transitions, so if you want to follow through with your own analysis, well you can follow along with mine in some ways. XD

Room 1: Ah, the old fashioned starting stretch of a stage, nothing much to this one beyond simple enemy introductions. You encounter a Speaker Tower just before the first jump, which, regardless of your character, is rather easily dispatched, almost immediately after the jump is a Sniper Joe, who, as I have mentioned previously, is remarkably erratic in its fighting style, tending to start shooting in response to sudden movements. The fact that shooting through their shield is impossible in MMR makes them actually pretty tough to dispatch, heaven help you if you have more than one on screen, especially since they will jump after you.

After that Joe is another Speaker Tower, again, easily dispatched, and then there's a Joe on a higher elevation than you, the fact that Joes cannot aim makes this one far easier to dispatch, ESPECIALLY if you're Bass, who can just aim upwards and start firing, there's also a nearby 1-up that either character can get, though Mega Man will need the Joe dead first. The room ends with two more Speaker Towers right after each other, also pretty simple to dispatch, though these ones actually got in hits on me in my run.

Room 2: A single screen just up a ladder, obviously it doesn't have much in it, just two Metons and an E-Tank that you can reach if you bring Rush Coil/Jet/Treble Boost. If you're not gunning for the tank, the first Meton is your only real concern, as the second one will ignore you unless you shoot it or you're playing as Bass, as it will shoot at him when you go past it and not Mega Man (for some reason). The Mega Arm works pretty well on these little guys, as it happens to kill them regardless of their helmet, they do get a shot off though, so don't think it renders them a total non-issue. For that matter, two well-placed buster shots work just as well on these little guys.

Room 3:
The highest point of the stage, Map-wise. It starts almost immediately with the introduction of Beetle Bombers, with one flying in and bombing you, fortunately, the fact that it's alone makes dodging as simple as continuing forward at a leisurely pace. Immediately afterwards is your first Speaker Boomer, who is little threat, being unable to reach you unless you jump into the soundwaves. Then you're treated to a Beetle Bomber who, le gasp, poses an actual threat, as in attempting to dodge the waves launched by its bombs, you'll almost certainly scroll the next Speaker Boomer on screen, who CAN reach you without you jumping, leading to a potential hit, for that matter, dodging him is a trick unless you take the jump down to lower ground as soon as possible, then you can fight him without risk of sliding to your doom (which I totally did, brilliant I know).

The next platform introduces a split between higher and lower paths, with the higher path containing a very low-flying beetle bomber that can easily knock you far enough back to respawn the previous one. After that is another split path, each one containing a speaker boomer that only puts up a token resistance and, if you take the lower of the two paths, some destructible walls that contain an M-Tank and a secondary weapon. The lower path contains absolutely nothing on it, so you can move forwards completely unobstructed there. Then there's one final Beetle/Boomer pair that is honestly not very threatening, thanks to the Boomer's elevation and the room you have to move about on the platform just before where the Boomer is, which all but trivializes the Beetle.

Room 4: GOODIES! You have four "paths" here, one containing a 1-up, one containing a large screw, one containing a large energy, and one with absolutely nothing. It is possible with some skill to jump up to get the other goodies, so if you fell past the 1-up, you didn't lose it, all of these little "paths" mix with the fourth path and a ladder leading downwards.

Room 5: The first Speaker Boomer you meet here is actually a bit of a trick to deal with in some ways, though it's partner more so. If you move to close in your efforts to take it out, you call in a beetle bomber that is impossible to avoid without respawning it in those cramped quarters. One the Boomer is destroyed, you can safely avoid the bomber without any respawn, though you'd best not slide here, it seems to all but seal the deal. This little spot is followed by a pair of a low-hanging speaker boomer AND a Beetle Bomber, BOTH of which can knock you back enough to cause the other bomber to respawn, making this part downright hectic. I have managed to avoid damage here a grand total of once, making this spot probably the hardest part of the stage UNLESS you're Bass, as his double jump pretty much trivializes the second Boomer.

Room 6: A short, simple room that basically serves to introduce Shield Attacker into the stage, no real biggie.

Room 7:
This room is, honestly remarkably precarious at the start, with some very small footholds and a very strategically placed Meton at the end of them, making death a very near thing unless you're Bass with his trivializing double jump and aiming. Afterwards is another split path between upper and lower, both of which contain two speaker towers, albeit the two in the upper path are right next to each other. Regardless of which path you do take, all four towers have the potential to threaten you. At the end of the upper path is a W-Tank.

Room 8: This room is basically room 6, only with a higher ceiling that makes the shield attacker a little easier, and a split drop between left and right, drop down the left path, BTW.

Room 9: A quick, simple, vertical drop, if you hug the right wall of the left drop, you can snag the N letter for your troubles.

Room 10: Initially this room seems empty, however continuing forward leads to two Metons, one of which is an optional foe guarding some large weapon energy. They're then followed by a Shield Attacker which, for slow and steady players, will run itself off-screen and into oblivion, this is then followed by a pretty simple fight with another Meton.

Room 11: I'll be honest, Mega Man has a bit of a tricky time with this room in particular, as both ladders are guarded by elevated Speaker Towers that he has a tough time actually hitting. The first one I tend to take on is the right one, and I basically just jump and fire rapidly, hoping I can deplete enough of its tower that I can actually hit it. Once one of them is down, however, the other one drops pretty quickly, as you can use a ladder to just line up with its face and tear it apart, also, the right ladder is a dud, don't use it. Bass can shoot these guys diagonally, but it requires a bit of tricky (but easily doable) positioning to do it.

Room 12: The Meton in this room is utterly useless, as it doesn't react unless you shoot it, this room is literally just for changing ladders to a middle one if you guessed the ladder right in the previous room.

Room 13: Personally I find the free small energies at the very start of this room that you have no reason not to get a tad foreboding. The fact that Sniper Joe returns in this room pretty much explains why. For that matter, this Sniper Joe is best Sniper Joe, if you decide to jump past him, he'll jump past you, and into a pit, to quote my own reaction (besides laughter).

Quote:
"Get back hereeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee"


Anyways, after Fun Joe you're confronted by another Speaker Tower at the end of a jump, said jump leading onto a platform with another, well-elevated Speaker Tower and some destrucible walls protecting split paths with GOODIES in 'em, the bottom one containing health (and the ability to skip the second speaker tower without damage), and the middle one containing weapon energy. This speaker tower is yet another one where the Mega Arm doesn't really work too well, so it's best just to open fire while jumping if you're Mega Man, Bass and his diagonal shooting utterly trivialize this one, just like the two in that ladder room.

Room 14: EMPTY ROOM YAY!

Room 15: This room begins with a hole in the floor and an E-Tank guarded by a destructible wall. On the next elevation of platforms, you meet your first Whee, who goes down with, a surprising amount of buster shots, the things are durable I tell ye. After that are two speaker towers that, are surprisingly annoying. The first one can be quickly dealt with using rapid fire right next to it, but that does make you wide open if it blinks, which is pretty easily to miss while you're busy shooting, and the second one's lower wave can hit you in that tiny little alcove, so don't peak out too far. You then run into a jump that looks like a split path, but really isn't as the lower "path" is a dud, who also run into two more Whees. Then you face another one of those easily dispatched Speaker Towers, especially if you get the small screws, the large screw does require more jumping ability in order to reach, so Mega Men without their dogs are out o' luck.

Room 16: A quick room with an easily dispatched Meton.

Room 17: METON COUNTRY! But seriously, this room (besides a trivial hole in the beginning) is filled with Metons (and one shield attacker that is actually a slight threat. The Metons in question are all basically guarding a Large Energy, so unless you want that, you can ignore 'em.

Room 18: EMPTY ROOM TWO THE SEQUEL YAY!

Room 19: A short and simple room, just a duel with one Sniper Joe, and then another one after it, nothing too special besides a few small screws at the start of the room and the boss door.

Room 20: BOSS CORRIDOR GENUINE YAY!

Room 21:
BOSS FIGHT: Blast Man: Hunkered down within an environment vaguely reminescent of Flash Man of Mega Man 2 fame, Blast Man is probably the first, and only REAL challenge of this level, and by golly does this guy deliver.

This guy, as previously mentioned, only jumps when he is obstructed by terrain, turning around every once in a while (It's definitely random), and he will randomly fire Sound Blasters and randomly let loose an Eardrum Crusher. This guy is absolutely VICIOUS if you're playing as Mega Man, as he is constantly breathing down your neck, and his attacks (and crash damage) all do enough damage to kill you in seven hits minimum, firepower output that you do not easily match.

The sheer and utter randomness of this guy's fighting style makes him a huge challenge, I have honestly had moments where I have moved to jump over him, and just as I lift off, he stops to fire off an attack, believe me when I say that's annoying.

Also, KEEP THAT BLOODY BUSTER CHARGED AT ALL BLOODY TIMES! I CANNOT stress that enough, as without a charge shot, stopping his Eardrum Crusher will DEMAND that you be on the same level as him, and you REALLY don't want to be next to this guy, especially in the leftmost section, landing in there with him chasing you down (or WITH him) is a damage sentence. This guy took me a LOT of tries to down this guy buster only Mega Man, no thanks to how much of an utter powerhouse he is.

Bass does find this fight a lot easier thanks to his mobility, which against this powerhouse's attacks is a freaking miracle AND makes it so the leftmost section isn't as much of a damage sentence, but if you're trying to perfect run this guy, hope, and, pray that he does NOT use the Eardrum Crusher in the left or right sections (or at all really), or your run is done, and if he starts the fight with it, it was over before it could really begin.

Overall, Blast Man can be best described as really powerful and really freaking random and boasting a dull stage with a few clever anti-Mega Man moments.


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 Post subject: Re: Blast Man Blast - Blast Man Associated Discussion
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:39 pm 
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Raging-Banebou wrote:
If it's alright with you, can I give you my idea of an ideal enemy for Blast Man's stage?

Why not have a humanoid robot that carries a boombox on its shoulders and attacks by firing soundwaves that expand like the Ripple Laser from the Gradius series (though not as big as the laser itself)?

UPDATE: Here's the boombox robot enemy I mentioned earlier. The sheet may not look as perfect as one may think, but at least I had some fun making this ideal stage enemy for Blast Man's stage.
Image


This is good idea,I hope Blast Man Stage can consideration the good idea.


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 Post subject: Re: Blast Man Blast - Blast Man Associated Discussion
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:52 pm 
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My feelings, in brief, on the Blast-Man fellow:

Stage: I found myself pondering "When does it end?" many times when walking through Blast-Man's stage. The stage marched on without doing anything interesting; just more sound towers in the way. The stage consisted of mowing down enemies and marching on, on, on towards the Boss Door. The stage is visually boring (Basing it off of a real or fictitious thing is no excuse to make it look so dull), and gimmicks are nonexistent. In short, there's nothing there to interest the player, no gimmick to blow their minds. Haste-Man had vertical Force Beam sections, Storm-Man blasted lightning at you from afar, Ghost-Man had like a million things...Blast-Man doesn't have that.
Theme: Blast-Man's theme is equal in monotony to his stage. The overall length of his theme is only thirty seconds and change. Moreover, the loop is very predictable. The only reason I easily remember it is because it ground its way into my head for reasons not even I can explain. It's something in MMRevo I would just do away with and start over from scratch.
Fight: I've only ever fought Blast-Man as Mega, but I still feel qualified to speak about him. Blast-Man is incredibly, almost painfully simple: just keep a safe distance and pop him with a shot whenever it's safe to do so. His lackluster Sound Blaster and questionable Eardrum Crusher aren't much of a match if you know what you're doing. Like nearly every thing in MMRevo, he was very easy to defeat, and yet, people still complain about his cheapness. And I can't help but notice that he only uses explosive blasts instead of sound blasts and explosive blasts.
Sprite: At least he has this going for him. Blast is one of MMRevo's sane sprite designs. Facial expression conveys emotion that well matches his character, he's not an edit of any sort, his speakers are prominent like they should be. I really like that aspect of him.

So how do we fix him?
Recompose Blast-Man's theme from scratch. Give his stage a gimmick to make it less monotonous. There are many potential gimmicks, but just for my two cents...for a sound- or time-based character, a gimmick of moving/acting to a beat is always a good option. His new theme permitting, this could be a potentially interesting choice for his new gimmick. Replace Eardrum Crusher in his fight for an attack where he actually blasts sound waves at you.


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 Post subject: Re: Blast Man Blast - Blast Man Associated Discussion
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:04 am 
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For Blast Man's theme, why not give it a Solar Man-like feel to it? Second, for a stage gimmick, I'm gonna agree with Ndraxian0's idea.


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